GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

[somehiker]

Hey Wayne Hope all is well Wayne how many times have you gone deep into the Supers alone not many I would think. First off it is very dangerous and pretty much just not too smart. But then you have a core of good friends to go with on the more dangerous places. I would assume if you were going to La Barge canyon you would have support and not have to swim to the middle of Canyon Lake and catch a ride from the Brady Bunch because you have no friends and you are a alone. That kind of says it all. I just had a post deleted that actually was pretty nice, I am done with that clown and I hope we never meet in person. Last time in Supers their were 5 of us,on the upcoming trip there will be 6 or seven of us. I like you have friends( loyal good friends) that have people skills and are not phony's. Anyway last comment on that sad affair. Like I said I know what he looks like and I hope truly we never meet. How has the hiking been this spring, snakes about normal? Take care be careful and good hunting. Jeff.

Sorry Jeff, must have missed seeing this post before now, but yes...all's good with me. Got out there in early April for a few days, two with friends along and a couple on my own. Saw two snakes and heard another on the first day, but nothing after but one Gila Monster about a mile south of Tortilla Ranch. And yes, I have spent the majority of time exploring solo, and often prefer it that way, although the risks are greater. I always let someone else know where I expect to be going, as well as when I figure I'll be back, just in case. Insofar as LaBarge is concerned, I've never been down it as far as Canyon Lake, and I believe you are referencing RG's hike and swim on the occasion when he hiked down another canyon altogether, that being the one where "Bat Cave" is situated.

Regards:Wayne

[somehiker]

Wayne I remember someone was said back in the day that the Dutchman had a portable washer sifter made up for him that he could transport on his jackass, who supposedly said that and could it still be somewhat intake if it was exposed laying on a ledge? Are the conditions dry enough even with some winter downpours that it still could be at least some what intake? Thanks Jeff

As I recall, it was said that Waltz had a carpenter in Florence build him a drywasher so that he could recover more of the finer gold from where he was prospecting at the time. To me this says that it was earlier in the time frame....when he and Weisner were still based in Florence, rather than coming and going from his homestead in Phoenix. I think contemporary reports had him coming and going from the south end of the range at that time, and working one of the watersheds somewhere in the Iron Mountain area. A drywasher would make sense for that IMO, but not for the later stories of his "richest mine" and hardrock ore samples attributed to him after he settled down in Phoenix. It's possible that sampling with the d-w helped him to find his mine, but we'd have to ignore the other stories about how he, or he and Weisner found the mine itself, if that were the case. And it's also possible that the drywasher was intended for use on one of his prior claims up in the Bradshaws.
I guess that whether or not all or parts of that drywasher might still exist would depend on what it was made from. Any metal parts might have survived, but I would expect whatever was made from wood, if exposed to the weather, would have rotted away long ago. I've seen modern era shovel handles turned into flimsy hollow tubes by termites out there as well.
I've posted a couple of photos before, of what I thought could be some kind of d-w. A long box made of the same kind of galvanized sheet metal as used for roofing in those days. It had two long wood handles on the sides and a hole....maybe for a bellows....at one end. One end was folded and soldered, and the other made from a piece of planking. Most of the wooden parts were pretty much in fragments though, but we MD'd some old nails in a pile of sandy dirt on which it was found. One of my friends, who has seen it and knows far more about mining equipment than I do, thinks it was a ice chest though.

Regards:Wayne

[jhowlett]

Thanks Wayne That is pretty much what I thought. But someone else latter on could have been on the same site, and used one? Also from what I can tell there could be at least five different attempts 2 lower tunnels hard surface most likely granite of some sort, then a cave above and then farther up 2 attempts in sedimentary softer rock? Did the Perallta daughter not say they used lodge poles with pegs to get up and work. Follow my thinking? Thanks Jeff.

[somehiker]

Jeff:

I don't know about poles with pegs, but notched poles were often used as ladders, especially in confined places where a wider conventional ladder might not fit. The only way to know if what you have is really old and Peralta, is to go out there and get a close-up look at everything.

`Regards:Wayne

[jhowlett]

Hey Thanks Wayne We have several photos, not Google Earth but with Ziess Telephoto maybe someone was up there in the fifty's, but it is right in front of a mine entrance, in the fall we will try to get up there. We are taking two mountain climbers with us this time and my two guys are taking repelling lessons. The original way is now blocked with boulders. Thanks Jeff

[somehiker]

Sounds exciting, and the sorta thing that keeps us all going back out there till we're satisfied that we know everything about a particular mine and it's history. Good luck in the fall, and post some photos when you are able to.

Regards:Wayne

[tjoslin53]

Hello! Are we all talking about the Bat Cave off Canyon Lake and that old later? That site I can give you info on if that's the case:) Not a safe climb and bring a mask!

tjoslin53

[jhowlett]

No not the bat cave, that thing on the show sorry was lame. I was talking about the Peralta daughter who supposedly said they use poles to climb to mine, nothing at all to do with the bat cave. The bat cave ladder was probably still there from the forties when they got bat squat for gun powder. The bat cave has nothing to do with much of anything. Thank Jeff.

[jhowlett]

Hey Wayne Hope all is going well? In Thomas Glover's book he talks about the extensive tests he had done on known gold samples from the Dutchman's day from surrounding mines, ( Vulcan, Goldfields, etc.). And the matchbox now that belongs to Schuss along with some other known jewelry made from Waltz's mine? The jewelry gold was unique and did not exactly match any, including the Goldfield's, both upper and lower samples.
However it was concluded that no gold of that makeup had ever been found to be present in central Arizona? (of course neither has the mine). Wayne what are your thoughts?

Also In Sims Ely's book he talks about how he and his partner Wesier would camp miles away from the mine near a found water source, tether their horse's and return later with the days gold and hide it where know one could find it and then the next day do the same thing. He said the Mexicans did the same thing. It also is said that he camped above the mine just as the Mexican's did? Maybe later after his partner was dead and he was older and alone that would have physically been too much so he just camped above the mine. Cold he and the Mexican's done both.? Well yes it would depend on which trip the Mexicans where on? Does any of this make any logical sense?

Thanks Jeff.

[jhowlett]

Does anybody, have much info on Bill Jenkins, I have read Storms book and some previous post and the whole things not seem to make any sense? If Jenkins was in AV home, how long had he been in there? What was Bill Jenkins background history? Maybe he met someone in the VA who actually had been there done that, shared the info with Jenkins and he took it and ran with it. Did Jenkins have that original map with him went he went with Storm and the others? Could someone in the VA have given him that map who was in the VA besides him at that time. I do not think he drew the map. Jeff

Who was in the VA when he was there?